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Don Desfosse

  • ATC Instructor
  • 5772
Significant change to taxi procedures
« on: April 22, 2010, 10:31:05 pm »
Team, 

The FAA just issued FAA Notice 7110.528, effective 30 Jun 2010, that affects significantly the taxi procedures used when crossing runways. 

Summary of Changes:

1. The phraseology "Taxi to _____" will no longer be used. 
2. Aircraft are no longer automatically permitted to cross runways along their taxi route.  An explicit runway crossing clearance must be issued for each runway (active/inactive or closed) crossing and requires an aircraft/vehicle to have crossed the previous runway before another runway crossing clearance may be issued. 


An example using the new terminology: 

Note: In the following example, KBOS is using the 27/27 configuration, Local and Ground control are combined.

Old clearance to Runway 27 for departure, using the new taxi diagram, would sound like:
AAL123, taxi to runway 27 via Bravo, Charlie Delta.


New clearance to Runway 27 for departure, using the new taxi diagram, would sound like:
AAL123, Runway 27, taxi via Bravo, Charlie, Delta.

even though no hold short was issued for Runway 4L, AAL123 cannot cross 4L without a clearance.

as AAL123 approaches Runway 4L:
AAL123, cross Runway 4L.

as AAL123 approaches Runway 4R:
AAL123, cross Runway 4R.

as AAL123 approaches Runway 33L:
AAL123, cross Runway 33L.


Yes, so on a busy day (read event), can you see the issue with this....?  Methinks the lawyers won, ATC and the pilots lost.....
« Last Edit: June 30, 2010, 09:07:39 am by Guest »
Don Desfosse (DO)
Division Director Emeritus, VATUSA
ATM Emeritus, Boston ARTCC

Boston ARTCC - Where Excellence is Routine!

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Mike Willey

  • 2508
  • "Aviate, Navigate (THEN) Communicate"
Re: Significant change to taxi procedures
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2010, 05:16:52 am »
That is pretty interesting, especially since we have trained a few pilots not to arbitrarilly stop at each runway now in the implied clearance..

Oh Well... :-

Mike
Mike Willey - Retired vZBW TA and Staff Member
ASEL, ASES, Instrument Airplane, Glider Aero Tow, Tow Pilot

Re: Significant change to taxi procedures
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2010, 07:38:46 am »
Oh, Dear Lord save us all...

Jacob Bush (BH)

Re: Significant change to taxi procedures
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2010, 09:31:14 am »
Does the point of transfer of control from ground to tower for outbound taxiing aircraft still occur at the first *active* runway? In other words, can ground issue the runway crossing instruction for *inactive* runways?

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Don Desfosse

  • ATC Instructor
  • 5772
Re: Significant change to taxi procedures
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2010, 09:33:10 am »
Yes, that remains unchanged.
Don Desfosse (DO)
Division Director Emeritus, VATUSA
ATM Emeritus, Boston ARTCC

Boston ARTCC - Where Excellence is Routine!

Re: Significant change to taxi procedures
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2010, 11:25:06 am »
Everyone sees a fight brewing over this one.  It will significantly increase the ground controller's workload.  Imagine taxiing out to 33L or 27...or taxiing out to 22R...or taxiing in from 4/9...  This won't be pretty.

DM
DM

Re: Significant change to taxi procedures
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2010, 12:38:53 pm »
Howdy,

Just thinking out loud here as this could be full of hassle when working CTR on your own. But would the following phraseology be acceptable:

Quote
"AAL123, Runway 27, taxi via Bravo, Charlie and Delta. Cross all runways"
or
Quote
"AAL123, Runway 27, taxi via Bravo, Charlie and Delta. Cross Runway 04L, 04R and 33L"

In other words, can you say it one go rather than have them actually stop at every runway on the way?

Cheers!
Paul Byrne
Retired ATM, ZBW Old Hack

Re: Significant change to taxi procedures
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2010, 01:12:01 pm »
Quote from: "PB"
Just thinking out loud here as this could be full of hassle when working CTR on your own. But would the following phraseology be acceptable:

Quote
"AAL123, Runway 27, taxi via Bravo, Charlie and Delta. Cross all runways"

I see that as perfectly acceptable, if one even remembers to use it.

Remember the TIPH restrictions for combined local positions? Don't think I ever implemented/used them on the network. Too much of a waste of time. Same with this... If I remember. And there is a direct relationship between which glass of wine I'm on, and whether I remember all these "lawyer" procedures... Normally it just degenerates to clearing them for takeoff after they readback their clearance at the gate.
Dan Everette (EE)
CFI, CFII, MEI
Retired vZBW TA, DATM, ATM
Hair Farce 1 Survivor

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Don Desfosse

  • ATC Instructor
  • 5772
Re: Significant change to taxi procedures
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2010, 01:41:10 pm »
I think the problem there is with the proviso in the new 3-7-2(c) (effective 30 Jun 2010), which states:

Quote from: "The new 3-7-2(c) (effective 30 Jun 2010) per FAAN 7110.528"
c. Aircraft/vehicles must receive a runway crossing clearance for each runway that their taxi route crosses. An aircraft/vehicle must have crossed a previous runway before another runway crossing clearance may be issued.
NOTE
A runway crossing clearance is required to cross or operate on any active/inactive or closed runway.


The other thing I was hoping to capitalize on was
Quote from: "FAAN 7110.528, para 4"
At airports where the taxi route between runway centerlines is less than 1,000 feet apart, multiple runway crossings may be issued after receiving approval by the Terminal Services Director of Operations.
but our parallels are 1500 feet apart.  The only place I see an opportunity to use that is for aircraft exiting 33L/15R onto either Quebec or Mike, Quebec, whereby Local could issue them,

"(Welcome to Boston), left turn onto Quebec, cross runway 4L, taxi to.... (or contact Ground on the other side)."
or
"(Welcome to Boston), right turn onto Quebec, cross runway 4L, taxi to.... (or contact Ground on the other side)."
or
"(Welcome to Boston), right turn onto Mike, right turn onto Quebec, cross runway 4L, taxi to.... (or contact Ground on the other side)."


To capitalize on the above at other towered airports, the proviso will need to be included in the airport SOP.  Anyone willing to look at the airport diagrams for our towered airports and give me a list of situations where we could capitalize on a runway crossing clearance where the taxi route between runway centerlines is less than 1,000 feet apart?

This blows.  I hope someone comes to their senses and fixes this before 30 Jun 2010....
Don Desfosse (DO)
Division Director Emeritus, VATUSA
ATM Emeritus, Boston ARTCC

Boston ARTCC - Where Excellence is Routine!

Re: Significant change to taxi procedures
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2010, 01:42:59 pm »
Quote from: "PB"
In other words, can you say it one go rather than have them actually stop at every runway on the way?

If you take the 7110 change verbatim, that would not be allowed:

Quote from: "7110.65"
Aircraft/vehicles must receive a runway crossing clearance for each runway that their taxi route
crosses. An aircraft/vehicle must have crossed a previous runway before another runway crossing clearance
may be issued.

But I'm with Dan on this one ... this would get crazy on VATSIM for combined positions. Maybe we could have this new rule be in effect only if TWR and/or GND are online? In other words, APP and CTR can do it the way we always have?

Re: Significant change to taxi procedures
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2010, 01:48:49 pm »
Quote from: "CN"
But I'm with Dan on this one ... this would get crazy on VATSIM for combined positions. Maybe we could have this new rule be in effect only if TWR and/or GND are online? In other words, APP and CTR can do it the way we always have?

LOL, was just thinking that if this becomes a requirement for CTR/APP controllers, I need to brush up on my IFR release skills.  ;)
Dan Everette (EE)
CFI, CFII, MEI
Retired vZBW TA, DATM, ATM
Hair Farce 1 Survivor

Re: Significant change to taxi procedures
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2010, 05:26:45 pm »
Was thinking about this on the drive home. Specifically that I haven't heard thing one about this as a pilot. Don't recall seeing anything in AOPA/AOPA Pilot/Flying/NAFI Mentor/SAFE E-mails. I called 4 separate experienced CFI's and ATP's asking if they had heard about this, all replied negative. Then placed a call to a FSDO friend. His first reaction was identical to mine (though the words aren't appropriate for the public section of this board).

His second reaction was the same as well. "Say hello to an exponential growth in runway incursions". It's kind of sad that they'll implement this, a controller will forget to issue the crossing of a closed/inactive runway, and due to a lack of promotion towards the pilot community on this change, the pilot will cross and have all the problems.

Doesn't surprise me to be honest. The FAA is about one notch above DHS in the left hand knowing (or caring) what the right hand is doing.

My take is don't even implement it on vatsim. Or have PB get drunk one night, get dressed up in a robe, and with a bottle of Tullamore Dew in one hand and staff in the other, issue a proclamation from the top of the mountain that the policy is waived in ZBW.
Dan Everette (EE)
CFI, CFII, MEI
Retired vZBW TA, DATM, ATM
Hair Farce 1 Survivor

Re: Significant change to taxi procedures
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2010, 10:04:44 pm »
I like Ross' idea. This is still VATSIM, and we adapt as necessary.
"Cross all runways" works for me, in spite of the new language.
Tom Seeley
Deputy Director, VATUSA
ZBW Visiting Controller

Re: Significant change to taxi procedures
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2010, 12:04:46 am »
In the spirit of remaining professional and keeping to our form of being real world, I would recommend we adopt the new terminology. However, being an actual real-world IFR-cert pilot, I have not heard of or read of this anywhere. I will check at my local airport this weekend to get more details.

Thanks for the heads up!

Chris Armstrong (AG) Class C Clearance Delivery/Ground Controller - S1

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Don Desfosse

  • ATC Instructor
  • 5772
Re: Significant change to taxi procedures
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2010, 12:24:00 am »
I spoke with some of the folks at AOPA.  I think they're starting to realize that they need to advertise this on behalf of the pilot community.  I complained that not enough advertising regarding who what when why how and how come was being done....  No commitment, but reply back from the person I was talking to is that they'll look into it......
Don Desfosse (DO)
Division Director Emeritus, VATUSA
ATM Emeritus, Boston ARTCC

Boston ARTCC - Where Excellence is Routine!